Part 21: EPM speculates on object and movement mechanics in battle.
Giver posted:
Umm, what's the deal with Yoyos breaking when they hit Punk? That's not supposed to happen until they hit an obstacle! [...] I'm betting the Object-element behavior of [Punk's ultimate attack] got copied to Punk somehow. This is, of course, speculation on my part. I can't claim to know the real reason why in this case.
Right, when this happened, we got into a Skype chat talking about how the hell collision works in these games. I have no insight into the actual coding, but based on observations over time, one does notice some quirks to the game that hint at what's going on under the hood.
It Begins posted:
Giver: also, yoyos get destroyed when they hit Punk for some reason.
EPM: I believe that's because the contact damage Punk deals has breaking properties.
EPM: To prevent obstacles from screwing his entire attack pattern over, I forget.
Giver: no, obstacles troll him hard
EPM: Oh, damn, over-estimating his design then.
Giver: yeah, Plasma just stopped him dead in his tracks
I hadn't fought Punk in a long time, and my use of obstacles in these games tended towards the Pawn chips because they're wonderful, so woopsie. Kind of just assumed he'd punch on through.EPM is not always an idiot posted:
EPM: Been a while. Well then again, object-forced-into-occupied-square interaction has always been different from object-attempts-to-move behavior. Most noticeable in the occasions when two objects try to move into the same square as opposed to one being there already and the other trying to.
EPM: I recall a time in the Nebula Area 3 update that featured an in-motion AirSpin moving into the same tile as a swooping TinHawk, which killed the TinHawk rather than blocking it as it would have if stationary.
EPM: I've always suspected that the games work by checking if a tile is occupied before an object/actor starts moving from its tile to that one, and then if it's able to move there (due to own properties or the destination being an empty tile), the movement animation plays. So in situations where an object or actor is already moving and the tile becomes occupied, the games seem to failsafe it by treating the object as if it were flung at the actor (ala AirShot+RockCube).
EPM: But then you see "smooth movement" Navis and Viruses, the ones that actually cross tile boundaries while moving and don't just teleport to adjacent tiles like MegaMan does.
Giver: like Swordy
EPM: And sure enough, sticking something in their current trajectory will either reset their position to where they started or trigger a specific effect to that actor (such as a Sparknoid orbiting something).
EPM: Although some have pierce or break properties, etc.
Aforementioned Nebula Area 3 update was my favorite part of the BN5 LP, so I do remember that pretty well. The moment in question comes right after I say "BassCross MegaMan is the powerhouse of the team now, so here we go.", so just copy and paste that and ctrl+f if you want to find it quick. I think I've reached a new zenith of ranting, good god, I'm literally commentating on MYSELF now and explaining it!
Physics! Sorta! CyberPhysics! posted:
Giver: Yeah, if you summon a RockCube in the way of an enemy, it breaks
Giver: take an enemy that bounces like that one virus from BN4 [Melody]
Giver: if an enemy reserved a square, it usually takes priority
EPM: Yup.
EPM: But then the occasional two-things-moving-at-same-target situation pops up and reveals collision behaviors.
EPM: So in regards to Punk, I'm guessing that his object-moving-into-object code breaks things, but he can't actually move into occupied tiles.
What I was trying to say there is that I think the games use a system where a tile gets targeted, checked, and THEN moved into by anything in motion that is solid. And because of different potential object speeds, movement patterns, etc., you can fairly easily shove something into the panel after the targeting and check. This usually results in the game destroying the object and dealing 100 damage to whatever was moving. But, there are exceptions depending on what you're working with, such as viruses that flat-out ignore objects on the field, like Shadows.
Whack Elemental posted:
Giver: funny thing is
Giver: I stunned him with tornado first
EPM: Right, but in this case the Yoyo is moving into him.
EPM: So it could just be a side-effect.
Giver: yoyo get trolled
Giver: so that would make him "Obstacle"?
EPM: I would say that Obstacle and Breaking overlapped a lot throughout the series when it came to moving objects.
EPM: If I had to guess Punk has a "whack" affinity assigned to him that doesn't behave as Obstacle or Breaking outright but does the same kind of damage that the failsafe two-things-trying-to-move-into-same-tile damage does.
Giver presents the wrench in the gears, in that Punk was stationary when this happened. I can only speculate, but who knows. That said, the Yoyo chips (and the Yort enemies' use of the attack) are an uncommon projectile in their own right in that they can be broken themselves, as I believe Giver showed in Beach Area.
You know, talking with the speedrunners and Giver about these games, I never thought I actually knew this much about the games. I mean off the top of my head, yeah I've beaten them all multiple times, but I'm a bit startled that I'm able to keep up in conversations with the others.